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DENVER AIRPORT SCAM

[CN -- The following does not necessarily reflect the views of
Conspiracy Nation. It merely reports what was said elsewhere.]

On or about October 6, 1994, Tom Valentine's guest on *Radio Free
America* (shortwave, 5.065 MHz, 9 pm cst, mon-fri) was a man
named Stew Webb. Mr. Webb has been looking into circumstances
surrounding the construction of the Denver International Airport.

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[Awesome sounds of John Phillip Souza's "Stars and Stripes Forever"]

ANNOUNCER:
It's *Radio Free America*, the talk show for intelligent
Americans, with your host, Tom Valentine.

*Radio Free America* is brought to you by *The Spotlight* [CN --
Note: Throw mud here.] Call 1-800-522-6292 for your subscription.

And now, the newspaper that "tells it like it is" presents Tom
Valentine.


TOM VALENTINE:
Hello, everybody! Welcome back to *Radio Free America*.

And a special welcome to all of you folks on worldwide shortwave,
WWCR. We are going to be changing in just a few more days now. We
will no longer be at 5810, where you're hearing it right now (if
you're hearing it). 5810 is being changed to 5065. And that is
the high end of what is called "the tropical band". And that'll
take place next Monday, on the 10th [Oct. 10th]. So 5065 is where
you'll be going, to pick up *Radio Free America*, starting next
Monday night.

All right. Now. We've all been reading, off and on, about the
great Denver Airport. First time I ever heard that there was
anything special about the new Denver Airport is when the fellow
that's just called in on the phone... and I decided, well, we'll
just keep him on and talk to him about it. He'll be my guest. His
name is Stew Webb. He's been a guest before.

And the first time I ever heard anything about the Denver Airport
being other than some big new airport that you read about in the
papers is when Stew was telling me about what a scandal it was,
what a rip-off, what an absolute political "fat cats' pie" this
thing had turned out to be. And of course it's *still* not
working: the new international airport in Denver.

Now it is a story that is worth looking at for *all* Americans,
because Denver is kind of a microcosm of what can go on
everywhere and the kind of corruption we have in very high
places.

So with no more ado, I want to bring back a guy who, because of
his personal family situation, ended up becoming an investigator
-- an unofficial, but very skilled investigator.

And Stew, welcome back to *Radio Free America*.


STEW WEBB:
Well thank you for having me, Tom.


VALENTINE:
Now listen: I understand that this Denver Airport has been close
to you for a long, long time, anyway.


WEBB:
Well the whole thing ties in with Silverado Savings, Neil Bush,
George Bush... and Leonard Melman(sp?) and Larry Meisel(sp?) and
Phil Wynn(sp?) and...


VALENTINE:
People that, you have been... the money people of Denver. And you
have been talking about them before. What is it about the Denver
Airport that makes it so special?


WEBB:
Well, the fact that the same guys that have ripped the country
off in the S&L scandal -- the savings and loan, and bank scandal
-- they were the ones that owned Silverado and Imperial Savings
of California and were involved in robbing Centrust and all the
other S&Ls across the country for nearly a trillion dollars. And
they were the same ones that robbed HUD [Department of Housing
and Urban Development] for about $50 billion, that there was only
one conviction on: Phil Wynn, an MDC director. (He agreed to pay
a $1 million fine to keep 49 billion, 999 million.) And they were
the same ones that were involved with George Bush in *Iran-
Contra*. They laundered the money. And it ties in with the
Clintons and the drug connection: with Bill being a drug dealer,
allowing drugs to come through his state; and Hillary being a
money launderer and part of the money going back through
Silverado and...


VALENTINE:
So you're saying that *everybody* up in these high places is
tainted by this thing.


WEBB:
This whole thing is all the same, the same players.


VALENTINE:
There's an ad. And I guess you're responsible for this ad in this
weekly paper out of the Denver area that's got a lot of
interesting questions to ask, right on the ad. It's like,

  "Why did the go-go bankers and developers own all the land at
  the Denver International Airport?"

Why did they?


WEBB:
That was the Silverado crowd. That's a local paper, a Spanish
paper, that's printing... the *El Reportero* paper in Denver
that's going to start printing all the stories. They've already
begun the series. They've done two stories already, doin' a recap
of the airport...


VALENTINE:
Oh that's right, that's what this is. And it's got it...

But I think these are good questions to ask!


WEBB:
They are. Excellent. And what it amounts to is on the Denver
Airport, the people -- MDC Holdings of Denver, it's a known CIA
agency asset company, used to launder money through. And they
have been the instrumental company in robbing the country, the
United States of America, for nearly $1.7 trillion. They
laundered nearly $3 trillion worth of drug/gun money through
Silverado Savings. They, this particular company and the
individuals involved -- primarily Phil Wynn, former FHA [Federal
Housing Administration] commissioner from '81 to '82, and former
ambassador to Switzerland from '88 to '89; Larry Meisel, chairman
of the MDC Holdings of Denver which... MDC's the parent company
for many companies, like Beneficial Finance, Richmond Homes,
Ponderosa Homes, General Homes... many other companies.


VALENTINE:
All right. Now we're gonna have to get into some specifics.
Because it's easy to go out and say, "These guys ripped off
billions." But we're gonna, we want to get some specifics and add
some credibility to all this weight.

My guest is Stew Webb; he's been a guest before. And the subject
is, the Denver International Airport. I'm Tom Valentine, this is
*Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right, we are back, live. And the subject right now is the
Denver International Airport. It's a *huge* scandal, it's a
big... of cost over-runs.

How many, much, over is it costing so far?


WEBB:
Well originally, when they came out with the airport, the figures
on it, they were saying it was gonna be a $1.5 billion airport.
It's already up over $16 billion. Every day, it grows by 200
million in interest.


VALENTINE:
That, that's crazy!! No airport is worth that in any city!


WEBB:
No, it is not. But the whole thing's a shamble, it's a fraud,
it's fallin' apart. Its runways are crackin'; they're gonna have
to tear 'em out...


VALENTINE:
All right. Let's go... All right. Take a nice deep breath, Stew.
You talk real fast. And you know this stuff very well; you've
been embroiled in it for years. It's very personal to you. But
the people out there listening right now, many of them have never
heard this, any of this. They haven't read the book by, oh... the
Houston reporter, down there, about the...


WEBB:
Peter Brewton?


VALENTINE:
Yeah.


WEBB:
It's called, *The Mafia, [the] CIA, and George Bush* {1}, and
also Rodney Stich's(sp?) book, *Defrauding America*.


VALENTINE:
Right. But a lot of people *haven't* read those, yet, and so we
gotta make sure they all understand.

Let's go right to... A guy by the name of Paul Swamm(sp?) is a
city councilman. Is he still on the city council?


WEBB:
No, he isn't now. But at the time (this was back in 1982), he
proposed the great idea to come up with a new Denver airport.
Rather than fixing Stapleton Airport by adding two new runways
and a couple new terminals, and it would be an adequate airport.
And it had plenty of room for expansion; there's enough ground
there.

He came up with the ingenious idea [that] they gotta have a new
one! Well, he was part of "the boys". And all of MDC Holdings --
the ones that owned Silverado -- are the ones that owned all the
land where the new airport is! Underneath all kinds of names:
Dartmouth(?) Company, MDC, Charles Keating had ('cause Keating
was connected to 'em, they had land of his out there), Bill
Walters and Ken Goods(?) that were fronts for MDC officials and
so forth. They owned all the land. They had total control of it,
all the land that was purchased by the city to build, as well as
all the surrounding land -- all the commercial and the
residential land around it.


VALENTINE:
All right, the classic motion picture thing; we see it every time
we watch a good, old-fashioned western -- the railroad guys come
in, they're gonna steal the whole town blind, and everybody
that's watchin' the movie can see it. In fact, even the guy...
Everybody knows what's going on, but nobody does anything about
it.


WEBB:
Well, the problem in this case was, you know, all the judicial
cover-up and the blockage! And we'll get into that in a minute.
But they owned all the land, and Paul Swamm was airport counsel.
And ironically, I found in 1989 that he owned 8500 shares of MDC
stock! So I think that was his bribe and payoff for his pushing
of the new airport.

Now there was another bribe that was paid...


VALENTINE:
What's a share of MDC stock sell for? Back then.


WEBB:
Um, I think they're up around 5-something now. But at one point,
you know, they were at 22 dollars a share. And [they] dropped
seven-eighths of a cent [per] share, [an] overnight 22 dollar
drop, when they were doing all the massive scams with Michael
Miliken(sp?).

But anyway, Paul Swamm owns 8500 shares, so he initiated the idea
(and it's a big fraud). And Mayor Pena got a $2.5 -- that's the
new secretary of transportation underneath Mr. Clinton, his name
is Frederico Pena -- took a $2.5 million bribe from Phillip Wynn,
MDC director. And I have the guy that was standin' in the office
when Phil Wynn threw a suitcase with $2.5 million in cash down on
Frederico, then-mayor of Denver's...


VALENTINE:
All right now. Everybody needs to understand: he's talking about
Frederico Pena. And this guy, Pena, was the mayor of Denver. And
he's the secretary of what, now?


WEBB:
Secretary of transportation, underneath Clinton. They've
[unclear] double slots...


VALENTINE:
Well he's earned that! I mean, he's built a $16 billion airport!
He oughtta know a *lot* about transportation!


WEBB:
Oh, yeah, all about... He's nothin' but a clown. Pena's got some
real interesting background in his, uh for a transportation
secretary. You remember Daniel Ortega? The name?


VALENTINE:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's the Nicaraguan leader of the communists down
there.


WEBB:
You got it, the communist leader. Well Mayor Pena, back in the
late '70s, along with the current HUD secretary, name Cisneros,
Henry Cisneros?


VALENTINE:
Cisneros, yes.


WEBB:
Yes. They were representing Mr. Daniel Ortega in a law firm they
had set up down there in a communist country. Very interesting.


VALENTINE:
O.K. They belong in Mr. Clinton's cabinet, and that's where they
are.

O.K. So Frederico Pena... You say he took a bribe. They got it
down to [a] $2.5 million bribe. Has he been charged with that?
Or...


WEBB:
I've got a guy that was standing in his office that wants to
testify before a federal grand jury! And I've made the request
before a grand jury last year. And a judge, who's part of the
judicial blockage, Zito Weinshenk(sp?), who has direct
connections with Leonard Melman, one of the MDC players, is the
one who dismissed it, saying I don't have the right to appear
before a grand jury and present all my evidence...


VALENTINE:
You don't have the right. You, Stew Webb, do not have enough
standing to go in and say, "Look. This guy took this bribe, and
I've got a man that'll say so." And because you have no standing,
then they're gonna ignore this allegation.


WEBB:
Well, it's because of all the judicial blockage they've had.

Here's part of the problem with the airport, too: besides the
fact that they owned all the land, they created three political
action committees [a.k.a., PACs]. And these three PACs, one of
them Bill Walters(?), the Silverado fellow that ran off with $100
million, who was a front for MDC. And Ann Love(sp?), the former
governor of Colorado, who's a partner with 'em [unclear], and
Larry Meisel, chairman of MDC Holdings, all created a PAC, the
political action committee. It was called, "Colorado Concern --
Vote 'yes' for Denver's future and Denver 2000". And they pumped
money through -- "the boys" did, the connected boys, the go-go
bankers and developers -- pumped all the money into the three
political action committees, underneath all their dummy company
names, to intentionally hide their own identity. And they raised
several million dollars where they could put ads on the TV and in
the papers and everything, to get the people of Colorado to vote
for a new Denver airport. And also to perpetuate their fraud upon
the fed, you know, and so forth. Even the Federal Aviation
Administration said, "No new airport was needed," etc. But yet
they got it through. And of course, they had Neil Bush, George
Bush, uh "Poppy" Bush, the drug dealer's son, the other drug
dealer, Neil, workin' for 'em. {2}. And so they were well-
protected!

And they also had another part of this: they had the judicial
blockage. They had U.S. attorney, United States attorney, Michael
J. Norton, who Larry Meisel, chairman of MDC, was his campaign
manager back in 1986 when he ran, unsuccessfully, for the U.S.
Congress...


VALENTINE:
All right, hold on there. Michael Norton is who we're gonna come
back to.

And why are these guys dealin' drugs? They're makin' so much
money with savings and loan scams and so forth.


WEBB:
Well...


VALENTINE:
Hold... Hang on! I gotta take a break. I gotta take a break. My
guest is Stew Webb. He get's very excited about this. But he is
very sincere, very serious.

I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right, we are back live and "Miss Lilly" {3} oughtta really
be lovin' this 'cause we're not pickin' on Bill Clinton, really.
We're pickin' more on George Bush at this time. But actually,
it's both of 'em. And my guest is Stew Webb.

And Stew, I kinda feel like your coach because, you know, you
came on this show many... How long [ago] was it? Three, four
years ago now?


WEBB:
Well, I've been on your show probably 15 or 20 times.


VALENTINE:
Well, but the first time, though.


WEBB:
Uh, it was... I remember the date: it was September the 19th of
1991.


VALENTINE:
All right.


WEBB:
They issued a warrant for my arrest, to try to silence me.


VALENTINE:
That's right. Well anyway, I was coaching you then, I want to
coach you a little now.

You don't need to say that George Bush is a drug dealer, or Bill
Clinton is a drug dealer. You may believe that and everything
else. But we have... It, the "hard sell" is going to turn off
more listeners and possible people to understand exactly where
you're coming from than the "soft sell" will. The President of
the United States has possibly been involved in some of these
things. And the former President of the United States was
evidently up to it, up to his ears. And so was his son, who was
already part of the famous Silverado Savings and Loan scandal.

But *now*, we're getting around, you're talking about a guy named
Mike Norton, Michael J. Norton, and he was the U.S. attorney in
Denver. That's a very powerful position. That's a position that's
appointed by the President of the United States and so on.


WEBB:
Yes. And Michael Norton covered up everything about, pertaining
to Denver: the Denver International Airport, the S&L, the HUD,
junk bonds with Miliken, the money laundering, and everything. He
was put in there by George Bush to cover things up.

Now there's a lot more ties here. They also had a federal judge
by the name of Sherman Feinsilver(sp?) who was also covering
things up. And his son was a major drug dealer that was
disbarred, he was an attorney that was disbarred, for drug
dealing in Colorado. And he had direct ties to Larry Meisel and
through their drug flow that was comin' through Colorado.

Now this is where an interesting factor ties in with Bill Clinton
and [Vince] Foster's death. This ties in with the contractor at
the Denver airport. A contractor by the name of Hencil-
Phelps(sp?) Construction Company. It's a nationwide... Actually,
[it] does work *worldwide*. They built Saddam Hussein's
underground nuclear bunker. They are also building the Denver
airport -- one of the major contractors on it that's committing
massive fraud. And the fraud that I'm relating to is the fact
that I have 4 former inspectors that were on the federal grand
jury. And we don't *see* any grand jury yet; we're screamin' and
yellin' for it. {4}.


VALENTINE:
You're talking now about the building inspectors out at the
airport.


WEBB:
No, I'm talking about the... Yeah. They were inspectors. Now let
me explain to you.

O.K. MDC people have Hencil-Phelps Construction Company. They
built the Denver airport. They also have -- Leonard Melman, one
of the MDC boys -- also has a company called Construction
Management Technical Services, CMTS. He has a black man who is a
front for minority work, named King Harris. King Harris has the
contract at the Denver airport to do the inspections of the
construction for the city.

Now King Harris is directly tied to Wellington Webb (no relation
to me), a black mayor in Denver, Colorado, who is up to his
eyeballs in corruption with him. These guys are building it, and
they are inspecting it. They also own the land, they created the
PACs to perpetuate the fraud and push for the new airport, and
they also have a lot of the concessions and parking and so forth,
contracts, through all these other fronts that they've got.


VALENTINE:
All right... ask a question then: why, if they've got all this in
a package, did they have to tear out one-eighth of the runways
after one year?


WEBB:
Because the bentonite(sp?) they built it on! You know, it's
amazing how sometimes God intervenes into certain things and
says, "Enough is enough."


VALENTINE:
Hm-hmm [affirmative].


WEBB:
Well it comes back to the soil. And it's ironic [that] it would
come back to the earth, that will *maybe* shake the foundations
that will bring these people to justice and put 'em where they
belong -- behind bars.

But the bentonite soil, that it is built on, it does massive
expansion and contraction. And they didn't compact this thing
properly. And as a result, the runways were poured in 1992; in
1993 they had to tear out one-eighth of the runways.

Now here's where cover-up comes in: The *Rocky Mountain News*,
Kevin Flynn(sp?), a reporter for them, reports that there was...
*including* he went on TV. Not only wrote in the paper, but said
in, exactly, July of '93, that there wasn't any problem with the
runways; that he personally inspected...


VALENTINE:
All right, hold on. We're gonna have to come back to that. My
guest is Stew Webb. And Stew, we will come back to the *Rocky
Mountain News* and the cover-up. Remember that for me, will you
please?

We have a break coming. If you'd like to join us, if you've got
questions or comments for Stew, join me: 1-800-878-8255. I'm Tom
Valentine, this is *Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right. We are back, live. If you'd like to join us, it's 1-
800-878-8255. We're talking today about the huge scandal that is
the Denver International Airport -- $16 billion, and going up.
And my guest is Stew Webb, who's been digging into the facts
surrounding this case for years now. And he knows of which he
speaks.

And you say that the *Rocky Mountain News* has taken part in the
cover-up! That's a newspaper. I used to know that newspaper well,
'cause they had a guy by the name of Dan Valentine as a
columnist!


WEBB:
Well these people are definitely coverin' things up -- they're
not even pickin' up on the Associated Press articles that Steve
Paulson's been doin' for me -- and so is the *Denver Post*,
through Dean Singleton... Peter Brewton, when he wrote his book
*The Mafia, the CIA, and George Bush*, that covered part of the
S&L scandal and showed all the MDC Holdings ties, even wrote on
page 375 of his book, talkin' about how Dean Singleton was a
personal friend of Larry Meisel and that Singleton made comments
that he was gettin' him in trouble! For doin' any stories on the
S&Ls.

And there's a direct connection that Margie Sloan found, several
years ago, with the *Rocky Mountain News*, with John Dix. And
John Dix is one of the owners of Hencil-Phelps, the contractor at
the airport. And he was the major money launderer, sittin' at the
Isle of Jersey, movin' the money... Blinder Robinson(?) and the
other companies...


VALENTINE:
That's right! I remember years ago when you talked about this
with us that you mentioned that these guys, especially your
friends Melman and that bunch, had used the Isle of Jersey in the
English channel for their money laundering things. And of course,
Jersey has the highest standard of living in the world, Jersey
and Guernsey, because they have their own sovereignty form of
money. It's really interesting. They must have some very secret
banking stuff that goes on in that island.


WEBB:
Well they have. And, matter of fact, they've got warrants for the
arrest of John Dix for income tax evasion over there, which is
kind of ironic now.

That's how they move the money -- all the money, the 1.7
[trillion dollars] that was stolen from the American people
during the '80s. And Bush allowed it to happen. And ironically,
99 percent of it went through the Denver crowd! That's what their
game has been!


VALENTINE:
You said "1.7", you mean 1.7 *trillion*?


WEBB:
$1.7 trillion. I have a deep undercover CIA source, I call "Red
Dog". Red Dog obtained $700 billion of U.S. taxpayers' money;
provided me copies of the bank accounts. And it's sitting in two
Swiss banks: in Zurich and also in Basel -- Swiss BankCorp and
VolksBank of Basel.

And ironically, $100 billion of that tied directly to 145 former
and current congressmen and senators, that were *their* payoffs
to cover things up.

These guys have got a direct hold. It's the Mafia, [that's] got a
direct hold over the *United* *States* *government*. Now...


VALENTINE:
Let's get this clear. I know that Pete Brewton used "the Mafia",
and everybody uses that term, "Mafia". And I think that the
"Mafia" is really the Italian mob, and this is much, much bigger
than "Mafia". This is like "Murder, Inc." This is over *all*
ethnic lines, crime syndicates. It's not just Mafia.


WEBB:
That is correct. I mean, the men in Denver, Colorado, are
primarily Jewish. But they are the money launderers for the
Gambinos, the Castellanos, the Marcellos, the Gottis -- they
launder the money. Leonard Melman and his National Acceptance
Company and Larry Meisel and MDC Holdings: they're all partners
in this money laundering operation that goes on in Denver,
Colorado! And they've kept money laundering laws off the books in
the state of Colorado until 1992! And some legislators finally
pushed so hard for it, to enact it. But they were able to have
that much control. And they have been the key money launderers
since the late '60s. And it ties Melman and John King and many
other names...


VALENTINE:
Well if I can recall, in the '60s, and even in the '70s, the
greatest money launderer of all was Meyer Lansky.


WEBB:
Meyer Lansky has direct ties with these people and ties in with
'em. They're... I mean, go down to... If you want to get the
Meyer Lansky connection into these people and into Arizona, ask
yourself the question: Why is it in the same residential area
that Lansky was, and the Wrigley family? You've got Melman,
you've got the Inslaw software Dr. Earl Brian, you've got Ronald
Reagan, you've got Dino DiConcini (Dennis', the head of armed
services [committee], brother), you've got General John Singlaub,
who was running the drug operation in Arkansas for Bill Clinton.
And there's several other players down there. I've forgot all the
names of the people. But I mean, they're all interconnected...


VALENTINE:
When you say, "down there", what are you talkin' about?


WEBB:
Pardon me?


VALENTINE:
Whereabouts are you talking about, "down there"?


WEBB:
It's in Arizona. It's on Camelback Mountain.


VALENTINE:
Oh! Like Scottsdale, and down in that way.


WEBB:
It is down there. It's the most expensive real estate in Arizona.
They've all got second homes down there.

And Carl Lender(sp?), who started Charles Keating's, down there,
and the whole bit.

But here's, to give you a summary -- and I think it's important
that we get this out, Tom. A summary of what they've done on the
airport is basically this: They owned the land, then they
perpetuated the fraud that shoved the appraisals of the land up
five times, in a year, of what the actual value was. Then they
turn around and create three political action committees to pump
it down the American people's throat that they need a new
airport: "It's gonna create 100,000 new jobs to Denver," and it
didn't. Then they buy off government officials. And of course,
they put the U.S. attorney in place and they had two federal
judges bribed, paid off, and the whole bit. And I've got the guy
that was launderin' their bribes! They laundered it through M&L
Business Machines Company, that they tried to make it look like
(the U.S. attorney did) as though it was a "check kiting scandal"
when in fact it was money laundering!


VALENTINE:
All right. We gotta take another break, so hang in there! Hold in
there. The U.S. attorney ruled that it was "check kiting" when it
was actually money laundering. We'll get back to that. My guest
is Stew Webb. The subject matter: the Denver airport scam. I'm
Tom Valentine, this is *Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right, we are back. And we are talking about scandal and, I'm
serious, about big, high scandal.

I want you to go ahead and finish where you were, and then I have
another question for ya...


WEBB:
Well basically, Mike Norton, the U.S. attorney who's no longer in
office; Janet Reno fired all 92 of 'em across the nation. But he
was, the cover-up part is in this whole thing. And that's the
reason these men have never been prosecuted, because, you know,
they had him directly in their pocket. He owns apartments with
'em. He took a bribe, and he laundered a $2.5 million bribe
himself through M&L Business Machines Company. And the federal
judge laundered money through there, [the judge] that was
protecting Blinder Robinson, the company that was movin' the
money overseas to John Dix's house. The whole bit. I mean, M&L is
one of the key, instrumental companies, that was like Blinder
Robinson, that was movin' money.

But the problem is, the guy got greedy and decided to rip the bad
guys off for $150 million. And when he did, he threw it into
bankruptcy court, thinkin' that, "Well. I throw it in there and
all the records will be available and then they'll see it was
money laundering and I'll be out of the country and everybody'll
be in trouble and they'll be worryin' about protectin' their own
little rear ends. And I won't have to worry about this thing.
I'll be overseas, enjoyin' it."

Well, that didn't quite happen. Instead, Robert Joseph got
"popped" [i.e., murdered] faster than what he thought was gonna
happen.

But there were some interesting cover-ups in the M&L case. One of
the things was, one of the vice-presidents who used to work for
Leonard Melman's Flatiron Construction Company, by the name of
Patrick Gibbons(sp?), now, or was then, an M&L officer. When the
FBI, the "Federal Bureau of Idiots", in Denver, Colorado arrested
him, he had 27 weapons -- 22 [with] no serial numbers, 7 fully
automatic, 5 silencers, 20 kilos of cocaine, 200 pounds of
marijuana, 160 vials of human growth steroids, 140 vials of
animal growth steroids, 200 vials of anabolic steroids. He had 7
gym bags, each containing a crow bar, ski mask, and flashlight
(which sounds like burglars' tools). He also had literature on
laundering money to the Isle of Jersey...


VALENTINE:
What'd this guy do for a living!?


WEBB:
..income tax. He also had passports for sale, citizenship
certificates for sale. And he even had letters from Federal
Deposit Insurance Corporation bank examiners saying which banks
would fail in the next 6 months! And do you know that Mike Norton
never prosecuted him for that!? And two federal judges,
magistrates, during his bond hearing asked the assistant U.S.
attorney, Mike Barrett(sp?), he says, "Mr. Barrett. How come Mr.
Gibbons is not being charged? And how come you're only asking for
$100,000 signature bond!?" And he says, "*In camera*, judge. *In
camera*." [CN -- Latin for "in chambers"(?)] In other words,
"Let's go in and take care of you and bribe you, judge, and let's
cover the thing up."

They let this guy out on $100,000 signature bond, and he had all
those items on him when he was arrested, in his home.


VALENTINE:
Just like General Noriega, see? They let guys like that go.

That's really interesting! Where is he now?


WEBB:
Patrick Gibbons is sittin' in jail for, I think it was a year-
and-a-half stint, for his fraud involving M&L Business Machines
where they ripped off some legitimate investors for about $6
million...


VALENTINE:
Well that was a year-and-a-half. Is he still in there?


WEBB:
Yeah, a year-and-a-half. Now listen to the amount of... A man
who's busted for cocaine, if they had one kilo on him today, they
would get an automatic 10 years in jail on the minimum, mandatory
sentence guidelines that George Bush created back in 1988. How
come Mr. Patrick Gibbons has never even been charged for that?
Another question will be, why did Janet Day(sp?) of the *Denver
Post* cover it up when she was in the bond hearing, and the
*judge* brought it out, part of the information about this!? And
how come *she* never reported on it? Because of the cover-up of
the news media in Denver, Colorado!

The whole thing stinks, Tom. And...


VALENTINE:
[laughs] It sure does.


WEBB:
..dealt with.


VALENTINE:
I... You know, the guy's got silencers [laughs], cocaine. And
what'd they charge him with? Bad checks?


WEBB:
They charged him for "check kiting"; gave him a year-and-a-half
when he had 200 pounds of marijuana and 20 kilos of cocaine and
letters from FDIC bank examiners saying, "Go steal some more money
before the bank collapses!" Come on.


VALENTINE:
Only in America.


WEBB:
Only in America!


VALENTINE:
All right, you said somethin' earlier that's gonna intrigue
listeners. And they love scandal and I'm curious 'cause I've not
paid that much attention to it. How does MDC tie in with Vince
Foster of Little Rock? 'Cause MDC is a Denver company.


WEBB:
I've been waitin' for you to ask me that, Tom.


VALENTINE:
I knew it.


WEBB:
Hencil-Phelps Construction Company is building the Denver
airport. They're the ones committin' the fraud. They have
committed... The control tower's fallin' over right now, and
they're pumpin' concrete underneath it. The main terminal, C, is
going to have a second floor collapse as a result of fraud they
committed. I've got 4 former inspectors...

Now here's the deal: Larry Meisel puts up a credit line for $40
million for Hencil-Phelps, United Bank, almost 2 years ago.
Sherman Wynn, an Israeli Mossad agent who's the brother of
Phillip Wynn, MDC director -- him, Maurice Harvey, and John Dix,
the money launderer at the Isle of Jersey, purchased Hencil-
Phelps Construction Company.

Now. The last time that Vince Foster was...


VALENTINE:
Now wait a minute! A Mossad agent purchased the company that
made, made Saddam Hussein's underground bunker!? [laughs] Uh,
O.K.


WEBB:
O.K. Now. Here's the key: Vince Foster was scared. He knew that
if he was subpoenaed over the Whitewater affair -- because what
it was (and I gotta tie in Whitewater real fast to this).
Whitewater was a legitimate business development, 'til 1983.
George Bush didn't want to dip in his pocket and give the
Clintons money from his cut of the drugs that were comin' through
Arkansas. Because that's what it is, it's government officials
getting their cut of the pie of drug money.


VALENTINE:
This is why George Bush and Bill Clinton never picked on each
other in the campaigns in any meaningful fashion.


WEBB:
They even cut deals. And it's too long to get into all that
detail because we don't have time. But one of the things was, is
Whitewater, the Clintons were *allowed* *to* *steal* *money*,
from three savings and loans: one was Madison, one was Twin
Peaks, and one was Beach Federal -- all in Arkansas. To get
loans, to do development at Whitewater and build houses at
Whitewater, which they never did do! And they got between $50 and
$60 million out of each S&L!

And George Bush told Federal Deposit Insurance, or Federal
Deposit bank examiners, to turn their head and allow it to
happen. And that's the reason they've destroyed, the Clintons
have, the Foster files and so forth.

Well Foster was going to tell the truth if he was subpoenaed --
because he was part of the Rose Law Firm and they were laundering
money from the big drug/gun operation and the whole bit, through
Jackson Stephens. And it had ties to Silverado and it had ties to
BCCI and BNL Bank in Atlanta and the whole bit!

O.K.


VALENTINE:
What of any of this is really ever gonna come out? You know,
there's a lot of talk right now, that all of this is going to
actually come out. And it won't be just on *Radio Free America*
and other places that this is heard, but it'll be coming out and
everybody will see that it's true.


WEBB:
It's gonna come out in Terry Reed's lawsuit and...


VALENTINE:
I hope so. By the way, we'll be back. I gotta take my last break.
My guest is Stew Webb, the subject -- Denver airport and other
things. 1-800-878-8255. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free
America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right, we are back. And my guest is Stew Webb.

And you just, you just put a lot of, lot of cash out there on
this Vince Foster thing.

We have Dave, in Cohutta(sp?), Georgia coming aboard. Dave,
you're on, with Stew Webb.


DAVE:
Right! I'm an investigator with the bankruptcy in Atlanta. And we
are running up against basically the same thing that you're
talking about, but with different players. We've got a man by the
name of Jim Fayle(sp?). He's...


WEBB:
..familiar with him. Yeah, he's got some big connections down in
Arizona, and also down in Colorado Springs, to these MDC people.


DAVE:
Right. Along with Blue Bonnet Savings and Loan?


WEBB:
Yep. That's him.


DAVE:
How is it that we can all tie together these people?


WEBB:
There's quite a few that's *been* tyin' together. Give me a call
at 303-634-4233. Lend me your name and number and I'll get back
with ya.


DAVE:
Say the number again?


WEBB:
303-634-4233.


DAVE:
All right. I appreciate it, Stew!


VALENTINE:
Dave?


DAVE:
Yeah.


VALENTINE:
I might like to talk with you too, about some of the things
you're doin'. If you would leave your number for me, with my
producer, I would appreciate it.


DAVE:
O.K.


VALENTINE:
All right. Thank you very much.


WEBB:
Tom, if I may inject somethin' real quick, there's a tie to Vince
Foster's death directly to MDC and Hencil-Phelps Construction.
James M. Lyons(sp?), MDC director, who's the assistant to Bill
Clinton inside the White House, who was on the transition team
that appointed Mayor Pena and Ron Brown and Secretary Bentsen,
and all the other slimeballs they got in there now. They're a
bunch of criminals that have been involved in rippin' the country
off over the past 10 years, with Bush and the gang. James M.
Lyons made 6 phone calls to Vince Foster the two weeks prior to
his death (and we've confirmed it with a White House aide),
including the day that Foster left to go make a meeting with the
source of James Lyons. He crawled into a van. That van, according
to a witness (the last time he was seen), [was] registered to
Hencil-Phelps Construction Company of Little Rock, Arkansas.

Now there's another interesting factor: Hencil-Phelps
Construction is in Greeley, Colorado -- their headquarters.
General Richard Secord has been bringing drugs into Greeley
airport. (It's stoppin' now, because I've been publicly stating
it for about 6 months to a year.)


VALENTINE:
I remember that.


WEBB:
He was bringin' in drugs to Hencil-Phelps warehouses. I have a
CIA guy that was workin' the operation and unloading. And they
were shippin' out AK-47s, [unclear] rockets, pineapple grenades,
round grenades, and M-16s without serial numbers. So we've got
this CIA company, called MDC Holdings of Denver, Colorado, that
is totally out of control.

Now there's some other interesting factors. Gunter Russbacher --
and you remember who *he* is [CN -- Alleged "October Surprise"
pilot]...


VALENTINE:
Oh yeah.


WEBB:
Well-named in *Defrauding America*, and you've had him on and the
whole bit. Gunter had mentioned Executive Life Insurance as being
a CIA company. Now I've tied... Executive Life owns 24 percent of
MDC Holdings. Another 24 percent of the stock in MDC is owned by
insiders -- Melman and Meisel and NSA attorney Norman Brownstein,
and many other people. There's another tie here: Executive Life
is the one that insured over $300 billion worth of receivables
coming from Jeb Bush that went to Leonard Melman and his National
Acceptance Company, that he made it look like he purchased them,
when in reality he didn't.


VALENTINE:
All right.


WEBB:
..reinsured him, and broke $300 billion with the insurance
companies worldwide, that makes us, as insurance individuals, we
have to buy insurance for autos and so forth?


VALENTINE:
I understand. But listen, we've gotta, we've gotta stay in touch
and do this again.

The situation is this, Stew. We're out of time, now. But I do...
I've lost my train of thought, because of the darn music
starting. But I want you to stay in touch with me. This is very
interesting. By the way, your prime sources are in jail. That's
where you picked 'em up, and that's interesting too.

I'll see you all after the news. Thanks a lot, Stew.

-------------------------<< Notes >>-----------------------------
{1} This book gets mentioned a lot. I'm reasonably sure the exact
title is *The Mafia, the CIA, and George Bush*. The author's name
is Peter Brewton.

{2} Here, by "the other drug dealer", I don't think Webb means in
the sense of Neil as drug dealer, but rather in the sense, "Bill
Clinton and the other drug dealer, George Bush." Webb goes very
fast, and is cautioned by Valentine to slow down later on.

{3} I think "Miss Lilly" is some old lady that keeps calling the
show and complaining that they are picking on Clinton.

{4} I take this to mean that he has 4 knowledgeable witnesses
from a former grand jury that are willing to testify before a
future grand jury that Webb wants to be convened.

 Brian Francis Redman    [e-mail]    "The Big C"
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"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."
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